Curse

SirSausage · Jun 11, 2008, 02:37 PM // 14:37

/signed a million times

Avarre, your post is made of win.

sibelang · Jun 11, 2008, 02:40 PM // 14:40

uuh somany to read and my english is baed...
ok ok
/signed what ever it is
later still can QQ right? xD

Symeon · Jun 11, 2008, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Hey now, if you're going to call this "epic useless QQ", that's trolling and will have your post deleted.

My contribution to the thread: /signed

Proff · Jun 11, 2008, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

The ball, as always, is in your court.

All I have to say is that there better be a really good RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing reason for all the recent shit you've done to the game...

pfaile · Jun 11, 2008, 02:41 PM // 14:41

The idea that they have completely given up on GW1 for the devolpment of GW2 would be less bitter if the SHARED anything on that devolpment with us, I mean ANYTHING at all. Let me know why I am trying to fill my HoM, a screenshot or two, a trailer, anything at all. I have recently moved to another large MMORPG due to the reasons in the OP's letter.

Ec]-[oMaN · Jun 11, 2008, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

I can only hope Regina (Or Andrew, any staff...) comes posting here: "We're working on some sever overhaul in GW1, to satisfy the GW1 community untill GW2 release", but then again, I doubt we'll get any anwser at all...

You probably won't. Regina is on less than Gaile was, and Andrew is no longer in his old position, I'd see him on at least everyday. He was probably the most involved within the bunch, sad to see him gone.

X Tigercat X · Jun 11, 2008, 02:51 PM // 14:51

so tru
/signed

Dawgboy · Jun 11, 2008, 02:54 PM // 14:54

Well done, but I doubt Anet cares.

They've always been ham-fisted in their approach of fixing percieved problems:
-People missing content because they can get a run? Build locked gates. Who cares if you've already played thru several times and find lower-lvl missions boring?
-Gold sellers? Completely nerf drops. Who cares if many people had a good time killing for fun and profit?
-No pugs? Limit heroes to only 3 per person. Who cares if the mission town I'm in is totally empty?
-Overpowered monsters? Ursan. Who cares about unique play styles and skill?

See a pattern? I could give a lot more examples, but I'll follow Anet's lead and not bother.

By the way, I've been frustrated by Anet for a while; I have no intention of EVER buying GW:EN or GW2 unless things change.

DreamWind · Jun 11, 2008, 02:59 PM // 14:59

*reads OP*

Did I just read the best post in the history of Guild Wars forums? I think so.

mazey vorstagg · Jun 11, 2008, 03:01 PM // 15:01

/signed
I agree 100% but I doubt we'll get a response as the traditional Anet PR method is to post funny quotes on 'how great is GW!" threads and avoid anything with gravity...

makosi · Jun 11, 2008, 03:05 PM // 15:05

There has been a misconception that Guild Wars was once a skill-based game that has descended in something that doesn't take skill. People with their uber titles, armours and shiney emotes will disagree, but it has never been skill based.

PvP and, to a lesser extent, PvE always ended up being Build Wars whereby your and your allies' skills determined the whether your team would win. Old R-spike and IWAY are good examples of this in PvP.

In PvE, I remember when Gate of Anguish was opened and The Foundry of Failed Creations was a PuG's nightmare. It didn't take long until people could clear it with a smiter, 600hp monk and a spirit spammer - in Hard Mode too. How's that for depth? Taking this in to consideration, it's hard to see why Ursan is such a big problem for people because people will always manage to overcome obstacles using wiki builds or guru guides.

Everyone with a Phoenix took a long time to earn it, everyone with Legendary Vanquisher took a long time to earn it, everyone who farmed Obsidian Armour sets took time to earn it. Ursan speeds the PvE aspects up, makes areas more accessible to a wider group of people and causes a great deal of satisfaction. Now Tormnted Weapons are more accessible to average Joe - who, remember, is the target audience of GW. It is of my view that the game is at its best right now.

I am somewhat peeved that the game initially sold itself on the basis of 'skill over time'. It was indeed a little white lie but it's still a good game nonetheless and the 6+ districts of Kamadan indicate that many thousands of people still play which must represent some good decisions by the dev team, right?

I currently play and plan to play GWII too. None of Anet's decisions will put me off.

The OP is a good post but I won't be a sheep and /sign with an anti-Anet one-liner because everyone else is.

Silverblad3 · Jun 11, 2008, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Avarre

You make some good points, and whilst many of those on the forum seem to agree with you I think it is safe to say that there are many who really do not care (e.g. they do not use forums, or think in the detail you do), are happy with what is taking place and just play happily along.

Seldom do people take the time to say thanks, and generally discuss things they are not happy with (which is important feedback). Anyway it is good to see what people are thinking whether it is right or wrong. I have not had enough debate to be sure myself. So here is one view of the thousands that play GW (I have been playing for 3 years).

GW needs new blood.
GW is still different to many games.
GW or any other game you play is what you make of it, or do not.

Arenanet do not have to answer the consumer, we chose to buy and play the game, we can choose to not play it, like I have done with over 50 other games. Not because they are bad, but because I have friends online and enjoy what is currently GW.

Arenanet do not have to explain what they do and why, because it gives away company information in a very competitive market. Shareholders and investors do not want to see 'staff' say 'Yes you the consumer are right, we got lucky with this experiment", not good for shareholder confidence!

Arenanet is a company like many others, it is a living breathing dynamic organisation, like all companies make mistakes from time to time, make the wrong call, provide good/bad support, public relations, information and so on, yet we still play the game. They have an invested interest to do the best they can with what they have for GW 2 coming.

Arenanet have done many bold things, if they have said it I am not sure, but EoTN has elements of things they are trying to see if it will work in GW2. To keep things stagnant in a PvP metagame is bad, shaking up builds, strategies and addressing issues (behind the scenes) is what they will do, regardless of what we think or believe, why? Because it is their pride and joy, it is their baby and with whatever resources they have they will do what they can in the interest of the game and ultimately its fan.

Anyway, good discussion items from one perspective (that has support).

Happy Hunting!

Silver

thesupersaver · Jun 11, 2008, 03:17 PM // 15:17

I started playing GW 6 months ago, and I would have to disagree with at least some of your letter, although not all of it. You were writing as a veteran player. The MAIN reason I bought GW was because it seemed like a game entirely skill based, and had NOTHING to do with how long you played. Your letter seemed to be complaining a least a little bit about how new players can now accomplish in 6 months what took you 2 years to accomplish. I understand how that can be annoying to you. Anet is a business. They need to ensure that people keep buying the game. I for one had no interest in a game based around grinding to become good; rather I prefer a game in which skill and intelligence make one good. Ursan did remove those elements to a great extent, but then again, no one is forcing you to play as Ursan. As a new player, I appreciate these skills as something to help me catch up with veteran players, and I use PvP to learn how to make a real build. I absolutely agree that they killed PvP though, because as a new player I found it very difficult to enter, even with every skill unlocked.
I think Anet should focus on allowing new players to enter the game and very quickly have the opportunity to be as good as older players if they are smart, not if they play for a long time.
Whatever the case, I have already found GW to be monotonous and filled with title grinding, which although addictive, has little fun in it after the first few areas in HM, and will ultimately leave me to abandon the game.

/partially signed

Cebe · Jun 11, 2008, 03:18 PM // 15:18

I don't think there is anything to not agree with on some level in the OP. It would be nice to think that an ArenaNet representative would read it and say to the rest of the team "Hey boys, maybe we should re-evaluate things".

Very well worded, and balanced imo. The penultimate paragraph in particular.

Alleji · Jun 11, 2008, 03:18 PM // 15:18

/agree with everything

I really would like to see some kind of a response to this from anet, or at least an acknowledgment that they read it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

What I meant by that was designing PvE closer to PvP - in that mob groups were given decent skillbars and balanced groups rather than level 30 and supercharged skills. In that way something imbalanced in PvP would be similarly so in PvE, and hence balance for the sake of PvP would cause less disruption in PvE. At the same time, it would reduce the reliance on tanking/prot spirit etc, while rewarding skillful play as the mobs actually, to a degree, acted like players in their group. This wouldn't need to be in place in all areas, but it would make more interesting elite zones, in my view.

I think a good example of this type of a PvE mob are the zaishen in HA - they have not-terribaed skill bars, they work together, don't have any overpowered PvE skills and are only lvl 20. Of course, the zaishen rarely manage to kill anything, so some balancing is required there, but they are a better model than wurms who hit for 400 with flame burst.

Avarre · Jun 11, 2008, 03:19 PM // 15:19

I already quit.

Yes, I know I made an offer to ANet that I would promise to quit if they confirmed their vision change. You didn't really think I would give them a chance to take anything else from me, did you?

Regarding posts here, I don't know if I'm going to respond much to comments. You all can see my views, and I know most of yours after the colossal Ether Renewal thread (most of the discussion there is on the same topic as this). The only reply I am concerned with is ANet's, though I know it's not coming. I have no problem with people disagreeing, as long as it's well reasoned - after all, I reasoned my view, you can at least try to do the same.

Proff · Jun 11, 2008, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

Everyone with a Phoenix took a long time to earn it, everyone with Legendary Vanquisher took a long time to earn it, everyone who farmed Obsidian Armour sets took time to earn it. Ursan speeds the PvE aspects up, makes areas more accessible to a wider group of people and causes a great deal of satisfaction. Now Tormnted Weapons are more accessible to average Joe - who, remember, is the target audience of GW. It is of my view that the game is at its best right now.

Okay, great, everyone has an obsidian set and tormented weapons. Now what? You've obviously done DoA and FoW/UW at least 50 times by now and you've probably beaten the all the games at least on nm. What's there left to keep you in the game?

Deathly_Overlord · Jun 11, 2008, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Amazing post, Avarre you are a legend.

/signed

Rocky Raccoon · Jun 11, 2008, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Let me be the Devils's Advocate. While the post is quite eloquent and has many excellent points, it is written by someone who has played the game since Day 1. If I were to read the same book constantly over and over for the same amount of time as game hours played, that book wouldn't have the same enjoyment as the first time. If you look at the people who have /signed
they are also long time players who maybe have played themselves out and should be taking a break or maybe moving on to other interests. ANET must have realized that they couldn't continue to provide what people wanted in GW1 (with the current engine they are working with), thus GW2.

makosi · Jun 11, 2008, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proff

Okay, great, everyone has an obsidian set and tormented weapons. Now what? You've obviously done DoA and FoW/UW at least 50 times by now and you've probably beaten the all the games at least on nm. What's there left to keep you in the game?

You have a point, I'm running out of stuff to do but still I'm never bored. Nor do Anet have a responsibility to feed me entertainment. If I were playing a monthly fee game then I'd expect far more frequent patches with lore, explorables, challenges and rewards.

Perhaps I'm simple, but I always have something I want to grind for and I spend time getting it. I am satisfied.

I was a title-hater when they were first announced but now I take a more light-hearted approach to everything and go with the flow.